The Manqué

Episode 4: To Aesthetic or Not to Aesthetic?

December 13, 2019 Monica Busch & Mary Stathos Season 1 Episode 4
The Manqué
Episode 4: To Aesthetic or Not to Aesthetic?
Chapters
The Manqué
Episode 4: To Aesthetic or Not to Aesthetic?
Dec 13, 2019 Season 1 Episode 4
Monica Busch & Mary Stathos

Monica and Mary discuss Instagram aesthetics. Love them? Hate them? Are they bleeding into your real life, like they are for Mary? We also touch on the golden age of blogging, ask ourselves who hot girl summer is really for, respond to Jia Tolentino's "Instagram Face" reporting in The New Yorker, and take a left-turn into Caroline Calloway's posting habits.

We also tease a new book club and podcast expansions. 

Check out Manqué Magazine: www.manquemagazine.com
Follow us on Instagram: www.Instagram.com/manquemagazine
Twitter: www.twitter.com/manquemagazine
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/manquemagazine/

Show Notes Transcript

Monica and Mary discuss Instagram aesthetics. Love them? Hate them? Are they bleeding into your real life, like they are for Mary? We also touch on the golden age of blogging, ask ourselves who hot girl summer is really for, respond to Jia Tolentino's "Instagram Face" reporting in The New Yorker, and take a left-turn into Caroline Calloway's posting habits.

We also tease a new book club and podcast expansions. 

Check out Manqué Magazine: www.manquemagazine.com
Follow us on Instagram: www.Instagram.com/manquemagazine
Twitter: www.twitter.com/manquemagazine
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/manquemagazine/

Speaker 1:

Hey, welcome to the Monquet. We have taken a bit of a hiatus last sort of a weeks between the holidays and just a lot of stuff going on. But we are back at it and this week we are talking about aesthetics as they apply mostly to the internet. Um, and I am Monica Bush, the founder and editor in chief of them. Okay. And I am joined by Mary [inaudible]

Speaker 2:

saying it right. This

Speaker 1:

I said it right this time. Yes. By the way, if you've been listening to this, I have been saying Mary's raw Mary's name wrong in forever. She corrected me after like the last episode, but it is, um, and so we are just jumping right into things and we were talking about

Speaker 2:

awesome statics.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So like we should just start from where we wanted to start, which I guess is like when did you become um, uh, aware of aesthetics like on Instagram? I think unless you knew about them in the blogging era before Instagram dominance. But I'm asking you you because if you don't know already married very, very good at cultivating an Instagram aesthetic, which I don't know if she wants me to say that, but it's just true. She's very good at taking photos, editing photos, being

Speaker 2:

uh, consistent, which is I think is the hardest part for me. But yeah, take it away, which we can add this quickly. A shameless plug for our Instagram at Mon K magazine, which I've run mostly now. We've both been running it, but I sort of set the stage for the aesthetic.

Speaker 1:

Still very much your baby I would say. But that was how we ended up working together in the first place. I was like, we were talking about how you get involved cause you reached out and you're, and I was like, you are so good at photos. Do you want to do the Instagram? And you're like, yes. I was like, perfect. I don't have to think about this.

Speaker 2:

Um, so when did you first, when did I first get involved with a static? I think tumbler was definitely for me where I became really aware that there was a way to take pictures sort of that like looked a certain way and I was always very into kind of like the hipster tumbler, not so much the what is now called more like the Eagle tumbler. Yeah, and so the more muted tones, the very warm colors, that sort of thing. I got my first like DSLR 2010 probably. Oh wow. That's so early. You were what a, you're in high school. Sophomore when I first got my camera and it really I think pretty slowly evolved for me into what my more consistent aesthetic is now in, I looked this up before we started April 21st, 2013 was when I first posted my, the first photo to really match my aesthetic and then when I

Speaker 1:

do you hear that that's the dogs. I can hear Nate yelling at them to be quiet for a minute. I couldn't tell if that was coming through my earbuds or whether that was coming from my house. Yeah, that's not coming from my [inaudible]. Sorry everybody. That would be the now two dogs. So we have wrestling in the living room

Speaker 2:

and then I think around 2015 is when I started using Bisco to edit my photos. And I think from there the Cisco really does a really good job of sort of selling this idea that everyone's photos should really look the same. And then there's one aesthetic that's pretty visually pleasing and I've really got sucked into it. Why do you think, I don't know. And again, I've been talking about this probably since Sunday at 3:00 PM yeah, like nonstop and a little bit like before that too. This is sort of a constant, yeah, and I don't, I don't know what exactly it is. I think part of it is this sort of sense of larger community that's really been sold of sort of everyone is doing it in a weird way and it gets attention on the internet. I had a pretty popular tumbler, like a couple thousand followers at one point when Tumblr was like pretty big posting some of my own photos, but re-blogging just a lot of aesthetic photos.

Speaker 2:

And then I found sort of that my Instagram begin to mimic what I was re blogging to a sense. So I was using them both simultaneously and then I got featured a few times on like the disco, like magazine. Oh I didn't know they had a magazine. Is it like their explore page or it's there like they have a sort of online almost blog that they produce monthly and they post the sort of top photos that have been published on this disco and I think I had maybe five photos. Wow. With them. That's really cool. And then I was like, I'm good.

Speaker 1:

Did you ever find it hard to take or slash edit aesthetic photos and also that's a question I would be interested to hear you answer. Like do you take the photo with the aesthetic in mind or is it the editing that's more important and making it

Speaker 2:

the end product? I think it's both. I have definitely set up sort of my wardrobe and hair over

Speaker 1:

time to say cumulating even really my apartment collecting things that sort of match this aesthetic that I really cultivated online and then took into my own life in order to make it more reproducible and Oh my goodness. But I also really, because I enjoyed it and it's very visually appealing and so I liked the way these things looked in my own life. The clothes that I started choosing, not because I wanted to be, but because I liked the way these things look soothing. Was it like, do you think it's soothing to be surrounded by things that just go together and here? Definitely. I feel like you would agree with that. Yeah, I do. I just don't think I've ever verbalized it before. We'll be on the concept of like things match, like there's things match, but that is almost different or a part of the idea of cultivating an aesthetic. I definitely cultivated a pretty ascetic apartment over the years, like moving and buying things and throwing things away as I lay on my mustard yellow coat.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I had for the longest time, it was just very random. Almost like my philosophy with decorating was like combine all the things I like and especially if they're bright, like I was definitely like very bright colored sort of person for quite a long time. And I guess I probably still am, but I think it's less of noxious than it used to be. Um, before you and I were friends, I was kinda, I was known, for example, one time my friend and I went thrifting and I picked up this really bright colored dress that was like watercolored and at the time I would wear a lot of like really bright, like random thrifted stuff, like brightness and patterns was key. And I picked it up and I was like, Oh, I love this. I didn't try it on, I didn't know if it fit. It had short sleeves.

Speaker 1:

It looked like it was going to go Billy blow my knee and sort of like a square cut neck line and I brought it home and like it was impossible the way or that didn't fit anybody. It's just so terrible. But I loved the way it looked like a pastel water color sky or something. And so I hung it on my walls, which at this apartment were yellow I believe because like I wasn't painting them. It was my first apartment. And so I was just as bright color dress and I hung on the wall and living her ground and it became this like thing. I still have it folded up somewhere. Um, and like that dress is sort of like emblematic of how I decorated and cultivated what sort of aesthetic I might've had. Um, but I loved it. I mean I don't regret it.

Speaker 1:

I like look back on that fondly. But um, that is so interesting to listen to talk about that because I feel like a lot of us admire us that X but can't or have difficulty actually pursuing it whether online or in real life or both. For me, it's always been a challenge anyways. I always really admire like people like you, it's just probably what I followed you on Instagram so many years ago was because I liked what you were posting and I was like, wow, this is really admirable. I wish I could do that. And I just feel like, I think that, you know, there's probably training when it comes down to it, but I feel like it's very, it's like artful and a lot of it is just like naturally having an eye for it and I'm sure that that can be cultivated too.

Speaker 1:

But like you seem like you just kind of naturally have an eye for what is going to go together or what is going to cultivate a certain mood. Um, for example, this weekend Mary helped me hang up a bunch of stuff on my wall, which you spent like five hours doing and I didn't tell you, but literally my wrist has been hurting at first. Yeah. Like it's independent of that. Like I have a risk problem where like sometimes if I do too much yoga or whatever, it'll act up. And the hammering that we did into my wall for like four hours apparently triggered it, which is very embarrassing but very funny. Um, but yeah, for those of you who don't know, which is all of you are and none of you, whoever listens to this is that I've been living in my home now for almost a year and we have hung nothing on the walls.

Speaker 1:

Anything that's on the walls is like something that's hanging on a nail that was already in the wall when we moved in here that we either forgot to take out or painted over by accident or both. Um, and I've have, I've have, I've have had all this stuff that I wanted to hang. I framed so many photos in like April, I think like so many photos and we were painting and then I didn't know if it was like a good time to put holes in the walls. I've like never lived in a place where it was like actually okay to do that. And so Mary Mary was over and she slept over the night before and the next day, um, we just did it and she like you did it really? I like helped you came up with like most of it I was like here's the materials and you're like okay this is how we do it.

Speaker 1:

I mean measured out of space on my wall. And you mentioned how to space on the floor and put all the school stuff together. If you look at the Instagram or my Instagram we'll put it on Instagram. It's not already there and show you what the end product was. But like that is like I could have done something by myself but the way that you did it was definitely just going to be better than I was going to it. No, like I had the raw materials so that counts for something. But like the organization is what's hard for me. Like it's not like everything I do, I don't like think everything I do is shit, but like it just was very, obviously it came easier to you. I think that it would have come to me and that is just like very part and parcel of the whole concept I think of aesthetic and who does it and who does it well and I don't know.

Speaker 1:

It's tricky. I made me is like, I think that when you're talking about aesthetic, a lot of it really does just come down to taste in a lot of ways. Like do you have taste or do you not really have like a refined taste? I don't know. Maybe that's harsh, but I mean how would you describe your Instagram aesthetic, your personal aesthetic, whatever you want to call it? Well, I feel like my Instagram has said, I can be described one of maybe two ways. The first way would be the KKK one filter on Bisco [inaudible] you heard it here first. Everybody inside scoop.K K one yes. K. K one favorite. It I put on every single picture with varying degrees of like warmness or coolness to make it match. And then the other thing would really be, I think I have a very warm like feel to a lot of both my Instagram and then my style in general. Yeah. You say on your mustard couch, like a gallery wall in my apartment that is very sort of orange. Everything has like hints of orange in it.

Speaker 1:

So it goes pretty well with the couch. Yeah. I don't even know. So my Instagram. Hmm. Do you want to talk about Instagram histories? I got my Instagram way long ago. I don't know. I definitely had it junior year of college, so I got it sometime in 2013 or 2014 I think. 2013 sounds right. And my first picture was a vignette photo of a tea cup. And the sad thing about that is that I like didn't know how to use a camera. I was still the first photo post it. Oh no. Um, and I struggled like in the early days of Instagram, there just wasn't really this sense of aesthetic that there is now or several different types of aesthetics. Like there weren't like Instagram communities. It was like people posted their breakfast, they posted like a book, maybe their coffee. Uh, it wasn't what it is now.

Speaker 1:

Like this was like pre influencer and so I would just like, I guess what we call now shit posting is like what I would do. Like I would like hang out with my friends and like post like four photos and then like, I don't know to post a mirror pick the next day and like that was it. And they were really shitty because I had really old phones, well they weren't old at the time but they're old now taking granny like pre front cam pics. And so I didn't really try and then like I guess I would lose implements a little bit in the years after that to like try to be, I guess more, I don't even know what to call it. Like urban. Like I feel like Boston had like a specific sort of like Instagram trend to where it was like everyone was kind of kind of trying to seem like a social light ish.

Speaker 1:

Like I don't know how else to describe that. Like it was like, here I am out in the city doing this. Like, and like that was sort of like what people were trying to do mixed with. Like here I am sitting at a campfire, I'm like, I don't even know what I'm describing. But, so I trashed all of those photos like a year or two ago. Like I got rid of everything from before 2015. Oh wow. Yeah. Part of that was because it was like just a time period in my life that was really crappy. Like I was in a crappy relationship. My life was really crazy and like I kind of marked like 2015 which was the year I graduated college. And the year I started dating Nate, um, as like, that was like sort of like a re a young adult rebirth happened then. And I was like, I don't even want that stuff.

Speaker 1:

They're like, I don't even want to save the photos. Like whatever I cared about, I shared to Facebook and it's like hidden in and out from there. Um, so I trashed all of that. And then I was like, I'm cultivating in a sec. So I trashed all my photos and I archived a bajillion photos. I have more archive photos than I have public photos and part of me thinks that that was just like I was sort of depressed and so I was like, here's something I can take control of. I can make my Instagram look nice. And so I just like really selected random photos and I don't even know how you would describe what I was doing. Like I don't know at all how I would describe it, but what I can say is that my friend Alison looked at my Instagram a couple of days later and she was like, I saw what you did to your Instagram. She's like, you may not notice that I, you may not know that I noticed these things, but I noticed these and it looks very good. And I was like, well thank you. And I was like that highest praise because of why feels better than someone telling you that your Instagram looks good. Like that's always, it feels good. That's, that's good. Hearing this come out of your mouth. It was like the dystopian nightmare to tell. Explain, elaborate.

Speaker 1:

This is a web page with photos, with photos and it doesn't fucking matter. Oh sorry. Yeah, yeah. This isn't the radio [inaudible]. Yes. You see you won't let me be, I was assigned quick aside for work today. How'd you go to a high school and someone told a group of teenagers to stand up and some high schooler responded real slim shady and I'm like, it's 2019 you weren't even born when I couldn't help a laugh. But in any event, back to dystopian dystopia, it's a page, right where we all heavily edit photos look a certain way and it shouldn't matter. This shouldn't matter at all, but it like comes up in your Google searches. That's like the messed up thing. It's like if someone wants to know about you, it probably comes up in your Google searches or you haven't linked somewhere. It's like definitely something that I look at when I'm trying to like lurk on somebody. It's like, who is this person? What do they do? How do they present themselves I to their Instagram.

Speaker 2:

Right. And it's fascinating to me that what we've really created, the idea of first impressions to be is how well curated are the photos that you take of your life. How well does your life on a day to day basis look cohesive?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. But also I think the content of the photos too. I have like some pictures where I'm like in a bathing suit on the beach and I go back and forth with whether they're public because I get really paranoid that like people related to my work or potential future employers are going to see that and be like, Oh no she shouldn't be on the beach and a bathing suit. Even though that's like literally what everyone does on the beach and it it like I think about those kinds of things a lot as well on top of aesthetic. So like yeah does it look good? Like do they have tastes but also like what are they posting? If you remember when we were teenagers and everyone was like don't post drinking pictures on Facebook cause you won't get into college. And like, yeah that matters. But like that was like, that was like the PSA at the time. It was like don't do drugs and don't ever post anything on Facebook that colleges might see do, do, do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I mean I almost wonder if that sort of beginning to tone down a bit and I feel like it might be social media kind of becomes more and more of really a dystopian nightmare. Twitter is his own like hell-fire I hate Twitter and I hate it. So like Instagram is like the opposite. Twitter is like how much dumb stuff can you say that people will perceive as funny in Instagram is like how nice does your life look?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I feel like I prefer Instagram personally and I think that might have to do with, they always would tell us in grad school that writers, in order to relax, we'll like go to the movies and go to the art museum because we like to look at visuals because it doesn't feel like work. Whereas visual artists like to read and do things that are more, they're very oriented because it's not their medium and it's an escape. And because I'm a journalist, I can wonder if that's why I enjoy Instagram or like tech talk. I'm obsessed with TechTalk and I can't, I open it and I'm gone for the next 30 minutes. It's like there's nothing else that I can look at.

Speaker 2:

I have a dog commands. They hi. Hi puppy. Hello. Hi. It's fin. No, he can't hear you. Oh no. Hi. Alright, thank you. Alright, so

Speaker 1:

I dunno. Maybe that's why I prefer Instagram. I mean like you prefer Instagram too, I think, right? Like you Twitter, Twitter around, but like you don't seem like, like you care as much. You don't seem like you care as much about like the discourse or something. Like you're there but you're not like, I don't know, like you tweet about your life, but you know what I mean. Does that make sense? Like you're not like getting involved. Yeah, I don't really do much on Twitter besides my own. I feel like I don't really engage that much. I also, I'm talking about this with Monica before I have hundreds of muted words. So my, Oh yeah. My Twitter has no politics really or much of anything other than other people posting dumb things about their lives just because of the amount of words that I have needed.

Speaker 1:

That, excuse me, that must be blessed. I can't even, God, if it wasn't for work, I would do that. I just hate Twitter. Twitter sparks such an inferiority complex in me. It is so bad. It's just other people working in my field just talking about their jobs, talking about the things they're doing and I just am, I'm not a good enough person that I can be that excited for somebody else doing great. I just feel bad about myself and that's all Twitter does. Um, so I guess like the long and short of this, if you can hear it's taken a drink. Thanks. Is that I don't really know that I have an aesthetic. I like tried to really cultivate like a cooler aesthetic. But like we were talking about earlier, I'm always attracted to bright colors. So it would be like bright color with a cool whatever, like white background or whatever.

Speaker 1:

I'm just, I, what I'm trying to do right now is, you've heard me talk about is I'm trying to just trash the aesthetic concept and this is something that you and I have been talking about a lot. Um, shout out to it was Taylor Lorens who now writes for the New York times, but at the time was writing for, I believe the Atlantic. She wrote about how like the concept of maybe aesthetic thing, dead ish, like in the sense that, um, in the sense that like the highly cultivated photos like looking wistfully like, uh, Bay mountain or over a Lake and like here's my pretty coffee and stuff like that. Like she was saying that like that's kind of going out and I, I don't know if she was just talking about gen Z or whatever, but I think she was talking about Instagram in general based on what I've observed after reading that.

Speaker 1:

And I saw that and I was like, wow, that sounds really liberating. I love that. And something I've been trying to do after that. And it's sort of like after reading that is like release myself from this, like um, sort of what feels like a prison on Instagram where this pressure, you have this pressure to mimic a certain aesthetic. And you mentioned to me this weekend that you thought that was funny because you enjoy doing the aesthetic thing and I thought that was so interesting that we just felt completely different. Yeah, I go on both sides of this. So on one hand I really like sort of taking I think nice looking photos. For me it's something that I really enjoy doing. I really like taking photos and I think having this sort of look to them and having a purpose, taking these photos purposely and editing

Speaker 2:

them purposely is really, it's enjoyable to me. And on the other hand, there's this other part of Instagram that I would say probably for the last three years I've been pretty against. And it's like making it seem like you're living this really perfect life. So I've tried to be what I think is comedically, honest on the internet and about sort of my life in general and writing great captions pretty honestly about like things being kind of a shit show. And I also started blogging about it. I used to pretty frequently blog sort of making fun of that Pinterest style life that like where everything is perfect all the time. And that was when I started to realize how much of Instagram is really about making it look like you're living the best life possible. And there was, there was a quote in that article.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So the article she's talking about is, it was perfect timing for this episode because JIA Tolentino shared that she had written about the, the phenomenon of the Instagram face for the new Yorker where she is a contract writer I suppose. Um, and she was writing about, if you don't know what the Instagram faces and you probably don't care about anything we're talking about here, but you do know what we're talking about. The new? No, at the Instagram basis, she references, for example, Kim Kardashian, West Bella Hadid, Emily Rodda still don't know how to say her last name. I'm sorry Kendall chatter who she remarks looks exactly like Emily. It's that face. It's got the large eyes, the full lips, the small nose, that sort of thing. Um, but in any event, what quote were you talking about Mary?

Speaker 2:

Talking about, um, there's this uh, strain of mainstream feminism teaches women that self object objectification is progressive. What about that stuck out to you? It's exactly what this strain of feminism is really doing. It's somehow liberating for people to be able to post about their perfect lives. Because with the quote went on to say is because it's profitable for these industries, it's liberating to say, I don't care. I'm going to buy this $2,000 Gucci bag because Kim Kardashian has it and that's feminism.

Speaker 1:

Like I love my Lulu lemon. It lets me be prepared to pick up the kids and go to a workout class and go grocery shopping and feel great. Like, I'm sorry Lulu lemon, but I just made that up on the spot. But is that the kind of thing that you're talking about? Yeah. And this

Speaker 2:

sort of did, it's liberating to spend a lot of money on yourself. It's liberating to do all of these things and to get really what the article was more referencing was plastic surgery. He got Botox fillers and not Botox, fillers, Botox and fillers and Botox and fillers. And that this is something that's really liberating and feminism and while there is part about that is feminism do what you want. I'm very pro cosmetic surgery. If it makes you feel better about yourself. However, influencing people to feel that feminism is, is about doing that I think is really misleading. And I think we've really created feminism as an industry.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. God, if we could talk about like the capitalistic nature of like the current wave of feminism, like until we're blue in the face, it's like, it is so oppressive and it's redundant and there is absolutely no way to get out of this cycle or so it feels, I don't know if that's really fatalistic. Um, but you think I, I, I can see how that applies to Instagram that I'm having a little bit of trouble. I think I'm completely visualizing. Oh yeah. She goes on to write the cosmetic work might seem like one of the few guaranteed high yield projects that a woman could undertake.

Speaker 2:

I think it really ties into Instagram in this idea that the use of Instagram for a lot of people has really become about looking a certain way. So the cosmetic surgery industry as well as other industries. The detox teas. Oh God. Yeah. And even a lot of fashion industry now really they market on Instagram. Everlane is a big one made well, a lot of their advertising is done through influencer culture. And so there's this sense of belonging. There really comes from if your favorite Instagram person wears these jeans and they have this aesthetic in this incredibly beautiful life that they've created that you're perceiving, then you're going to want those things.

Speaker 1:

I've always been really fascinated about how that kind of thing trickles down. Like you and I, for example, you probably have a few more followers than me, but like we're not hiding. I follow her accounts but which makes us sort of like a good example of like what does it mean to be someone who doesn't have like thirty thousand fifty thousand followers but still adheres to this? It's so interesting to me because it's just like, okay, so so an influencer is doing is doing ads is whatever like projecting this perfect lifestyle, they're getting paid for it. Why are the rest of us doing it? We're not making money. I don't know why. Like it's not a judgemental question. It's just like I think about this a lot. I'm like, why does it matter? I don't have a lot of followers on Instagram. Maybe someday that will change. I'm kind of just like trying to get my mind out of that weird rat race that we're sort of just conditioned to feel like we're participating in.

Speaker 1:

And just as I wrote on my K plug, I've just been wrestling with the idea that like maybe I'm not interesting and like that's totally fine and like I will never be like internet famous, which should be like the default setting. But we're, we were conditioned in an internet culture where like anyone could and should be internet famous if they try hard enough or if they say the right thing or if they're like pretty enough or if they're funny enough on Twitter. Um, so it's like why, why do we care? Why are we doing this? I, I don't know. I'm not saying I'm going to stop, but I'm saying it feels like a question worth asking.

Speaker 1:

It is a question that I think about all the time. So it's like, like w what? Like what is anyone doing with this? We have just been so conditioned. This is unraveling quickly. It's so bad. It's terrible. Well, it's terrible. I think about this, this is really bad, but like my brain from like middle school has been conditioned to think like this summer is going to be hot girl summer for example. And this year I finally asked myself, who is this for mindset? It's funny, I'm glad we're laughing because it's literally absurd. Literally planning a wedding. I have a good group of like, you know, supportive people in my life, like I'm healthy. Who do I think that I'm like doing this for? I don't understand and literally like that whole concept of a hot girl summer is like an Instagram phenomenon and like whatever. I'm not hating.

Speaker 1:

We all love to like post really nice like bikini pics and stuff or whatever or whatever, but it's like what is the end game? They're like, why is it every year I think like, Oh this summer I will look very good in some year as I am. I don't know better than others or whatever. Somebody has some summers I'm at the beach every week. Sometimes I go twice. It's like, I don't know, like it varies really widely, but I can't stop thinking in that cyclical way and I think it's very fueled now by Instagram. In middle school. I don't know what it was filled by, since Instagram didn't exist, but

Speaker 2:

I think really with like the rise of digital culture advertising is really just switched to being about Instagram, like fashion advertising. But before that you see get catalogs. Yeah. And that was like what Instagram was. And so much of what like cultured by like earliest that I pre Instagram was the urban Outfitters cataloged. Oh hi whole wall. When I was maybe in like 11th and 12th grade was just a year old with urban Outfitters. Like they had like beautiful photos, like beautiful aesthetic photos.

Speaker 1:

You are so much cooler than me. I don't know what I was, Oh, I was decorating my walls with like Jember AAP magazine, no alternative press or whatever they covered. Like, like I had like clippings of like Jack's mannequin and stuff like that hanging out in 11th and 12th grade and ninth grade. And in 10th grade, in ninth grade I had a big mural just to photos of Gerard way from Michael NewCo romance. There we go. Now we're hitting the same note. Um, but so you're saying, okay, so you think that was like sort of like the original Instagram filter? I guess to see life

Speaker 2:

was, I mean taking the Instagram filter piece out of it, but more about this desire to have hot girls somewhere. Okay, okay. Yeah. Or read be magazines and you think about like Hollister urban Outfitters, even like Aeropostle like you would go places and you would see these pictures of now American Eagle is also going to mind people like sledding or on the beach or like doing all these splashing in the water and it looked so cool and they were wearing these clothes and they were dressing a certain way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I guess for me it was my space and then Facebook be on the day, like early days of Facebook in terms of what, uh, I guess like the pressure to feel that aesthetic but also like that's where my sense of aesthetic was sort of coming from. Like I didn't, I think yes, the mall, but I do go there a lot. So I was seeing a lot. I was still seeing a lot through the internet even at that age versus IRL just because like my family didn't have money so I went to the mall maybe a couple of times a year if that. Like I knew it was happening and I was aware of it, but I wasn't, it wasn't bombarding my consciousness. You had a very like seen girl face lending sense. A very seen girl. Yeah, and I clung to it for far too long as well.

Speaker 2:

I didn't have unsupervised access to the internet until

Speaker 1:

I was like almost 17 wow. I didn't have like any sort of presence on social media really before that I was intermittently not allowed to but snuck around regardless, but that's a whole nother thing. I was clued glued to the internet. But yeah, I think like now that there aren't catalogs, I think there's, that's how they're continuing to add this sort of, this is what you need to be happy. Sort of look. My biggest thing though with giving it up or sort of with Instagram's getting rid of the likes in order to cultivate this sense of post whatever you want and taking away the like pressure is that they didn't get rid of the algorithm. No they didn't. That's a great point. I hadn't thought about that. It's still the exact same. I actually don't get a lot of pleasure from scrolling through my feed.

Speaker 1:

I like look at stories before I scroll. Me too. I'm more interested in what people are posting IRL and also notably on theme stories typically are somewhat less curated. They are still often curated to some extent, but like I am actually more interested in seeing someone like post their shitty mirror selfie that they didn't put on the grid or like whatever commentary about their day that interests me. And so that's what I participate in and always asking myself like who cares about this stupid thing that's happening to me today? And I get self conscious about it cause I think there's probably like several people who are late lash at IMS. But like that's what I like. So that's what I do and I just, I like to see that stuff and then I start scrolling and it's just like the problem that I found is that if I'm following too many influencers, then that's all that shows up anyways.

Speaker 1:

And like while I'm interested in them, they're not the reason I logged on and they're not like the main thing I want to look at, but like I will pull it up and it'll just be whatever celebrity or like relatively Instagram famous person that I am following. Do you have that problem? Yes. I just opened my feed to look at it and three, four, five, (678) 910-1112 13 1416 1718 Oh my God. 20 Oh my God. Are you just scrolling right now until I find someone that I know, Oh my God, three [inaudible] have my phone or I would do that. And these are, this is all like the same, maybe four accounts. Oh my God. I hate that. I don't follow that many influencers or anything like that. I follow like a good amount of meme accounts. A lot of these are meme accounts. Yeah. Those also do log. They um, they saturate my feed. Yeah. It's like I like them but

Speaker 2:

I've stopped counting. Um, okay.

Speaker 1:

I like sometimes I miss like the O G days where you would like actually open Instagram and you would like to see what everyone was doing that weekend or something like that.

Speaker 2:

I have not found one single person that I know, Oh my God, still that is egregious and a little upsetting. I've seen minimal street style maybe 70 times in the last time. Follow them. This is insane.

Speaker 1:

And are they all new? It's something that I also was thinking about with this subject was like how often do you post and that sort of thing. People have a lot of opinions. Like I've seen stupid stuff that's like, thou shalt not post to Instagram more than once a day. And honestly I just screwed that. I've been actively trying to resist that mindset for years and it's really hard. I mean like no one likes to spammer, but like also if the algorithm is a screwed up as it is, then who cares? Like cares. Who are you annoying? I don't know. Whoever likes your posts enough that that's what comes up in the first place I guess.

Speaker 2:

And no one will even see it anyway. I still haven't found someone that I know. Okay. I'm serious bonkers. Here's one but it still is. Um, it's a consignment shop that my friend works at. Oh my God, that has 11,000 followers. So it still has like a pretty big account. So like influencing or whatever you want to call it. Maybe because it's a Thursday and no one's really doing anything

Speaker 1:

is Thursday. It just felt like Friday all day. But I digress.

Speaker 2:

Um, I

Speaker 1:

hate to say it, but this mostly because it's just like a whole level of discourse that I don't even know if I want to step into, but like this does make me think about like Caroline Callaway. Do you follow her at art? I'd already follow her drama or story.

Speaker 2:

No, I feel like we might've texted about this briefly. I have no idea what any of them is about.

Speaker 1:

It's a whole thing and it's not worth updating you on the podcast, but I can update you offline. But what I like or what fascinates me about her is um, it seems that she's quite cutting [inaudible] [inaudible] in the sense that she's what, like I don't, I don't know that it's cutting edge, but earlier I talked about [inaudible] people who who don't cultivate like a hardest etic and are much more casual. And I guess that's what I mean when I say don't cultivate an aesthetic, but it is still an aesthetic in and of itself to be like very casual and to be like here's some weird selfies and like you know like the trend is now to like post like a slideshow and it's like maybe one photo is good but the rest are just kind of bad or just like random candidates of people. She does that a lot.

Speaker 1:

And she posts like screenshots or, yeah, she goes screenshot, she likes shares names, she says shares pictures of art. But she'll post like sometimes as many as like, I don't know, like six times a day. And then like post like one photo a day for a couple of days and they like post like three photos the next day and they're generally pretty casual and like she does have like an aesthetic and I don't know how I describe it, like vibrant colors is sort of the thing, which I guess I had already said that I was attracted to, but she fascinates me in that she does that because she's also a heavy Storrier and I'm just interested in if people who use the medium of Instagram specifically in a way that they just want to, or at least that's what it looks like. It looks like they're just doing what they want versus following a specific trend or following a specific like norm even because like I mentioned like, I don't know if you've ever seen this, but I've seen like, you know like stupid like sorority girl things.

Speaker 1:

That'd be like the 10 rules of Instagram and it's always like don't post more than once a day, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And like people will shame other people for doing that. And it's just like, like you said, it's just a website, right? Like that's what I go back to and I'm like people should just be able to do whatever they want and if you don't like it then just unfollow them. Like I'll unfollow you if you post 10 pictures a day of your kids in diapers running around your house. Cause I hate those photos but like one is fine but I used to follow like some moms and they would post so many bad photos of their kids running around their house and I would just be like I can't do this anymore. But I don't know. So she interests me for among other reasons that one and I think about that a lot and I think that when it comes to Instagram in order to keep using it and enjoying it, I'm trying to like in the aesthetic conversation, just try to, I'm trying to like liberate myself from feeling that I have to follow certain rules and certain norms because that's when it isn't fun for me anymore.

Speaker 1:

And that isn't necessarily related to like having a consistent color palette or like editing style. It's more about just like making sure that I have the freedom to just do what I want on the line. Do what gives what sparks joy. You might say Marie Tondo your feet. Yeah, I have literally, I guess I do like scroll through and I'm like this doesn't bring me joy. Archive it. Yeah. Wow. I hadn't thought about that. Shoot. It's funny what you're saying about the posting and whatever is, I think about the idea that sort of with capitalism really we have really three main social media sites, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And so when we're thinking about photos or thinking about Instagram, there's, there used to be other places to do this. Tumbler comes to mind, tumbler we hearted photo bucket. Oh wow. Photo bucket. Should I sound to my photo recently in it's rough but you can get rid of it. Like did they get rid of everyone's photos? Yeah, when they were starting to do that, I went on to save all of my pictures. I'm surprised if I didn't, I think I tried to figure this out recently. But um, continue.

Speaker 1:

We really like our options for where we can use the internet more freely and we're like trapped with this because when I think about like I dunno, tumbler or something like that, it doesn't matter how many times a day you post or how many times a day you would like put photos on because like no one cares. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the way I think it should be kind of, I don't know. And like there could be, there is so much room for this invention of another social media site that you can just post whatever on and maybe there's less of like a newsfeed or it like looks completely different. Like no one cares if you tweet a hundred times a day, who cares? If you post a hundred pictures a day, we should just go back to tumbler. We should just, and that's what we're really here to say.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Okay. Podcasts. I honestly do have the thoughts. Sometimes I'm like, I just wish everyone would go back to Tumblr. That was like a good place to be. It was a fun time for all. It made us all woke. Yeah. I'm half joking when I say, but I do miss the tumbler days. I miss the blogging in the casual sense. I mean whatever, a golden age of blogging, blah blah blah. Then we can have like a really long conversation about where blogs ecosystem at the internet. But I like miss like shit post blogging like I met some people would go on and be like, my boss did this and I'm so mad. Or like Oh my God, I really like this person and I'm seeing them tonight. I miss that stuff and I don't know if it's just cause we're old or what but yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

I wish I had the Kona is to get into tech talk. I will scroll and scroll and scroll. Like I don't use it. I don't post but like I wish I had the time. I get to make ticked off videos because they seem so fun. One thing Mary and I were doing on Sunday was sharing each other's like high school videos with each other that we would like make with our friends and stuff like that. And I just really miss that kind of stuff. And tech talk. I like scroll through it and I'm like, wow. Because a lot of the people are like younger on tech talk and I'm like, this like reminds me of being young and I like wish that I still did this kind of stuff. Cause just like being silly for silly sake and like knowing that like maybe 20 people are going to see it and like you just see don't really care and you're just being goofy. That was a lot of fun. Those are some of my best leg memories of the internet when I was younger, which is really exactly why we made this punch.

Speaker 1:

Wait, which reason for maybe 20 pupils? Oh yes, maybe twenties who are listening? Um, yeah. Well I guess this is sort of a good place to land on. Um, another thing to say is that we are looking at some changes for 2020 to monk K into the podcasts, sort of expanding the podcast. And I think none of this is going to change, but we might be adding some other episodes and, um, we're looking at maybe doing a book club for the website and maybe some other things, but those are probably most concrete things that we can talk about right now. First of all, their ideas, all maybe five of you ever getting smaller. It's Abby shouts out to Abby. Uh, Stan tell us we are all ears. We love to, we love new ideas. I think that like once a week American, I have like a very fevered conversation where like, Oh, I have this idea for my PE.

Speaker 1:

Like happens always at like 7:00 AM. Um, and then it's like, yeah, yeah, let's do that. Um, so we love new ideas, I dunno. Yeah. Um, which is a good way to segue into iffy event already. And you somehow stumbled across as podcasts on your explore page or wherever people find podcasts. I don't know how I even find my own, it doesn't make any sense. Um, but we are on monkK magazine.com, WW, w w, I don't know. But, and, and Q, U, E, uh, magazine.com also on instagram.com/mon K magazine and twitter.com/monkey magazine. And also on Facebook under these same name. And yeah, uh, I guess that would be it for today. And, and we are out here. Where are we supposed to say that? In unison. I don't know, but route.