What do The Catcher in the Rye, Little Women and The Perks of Being a Wallflower all have in common? This week, Monica and Mary discuss coming of age stories. Why do we like them and what do they represent? We also discuss our personal favorites, Sylvia Plath, bad movie adaptations, and consider why it's so hard to like The Smiths. This + more on this week's episode of The Manqué.
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E. Hey, guys, Welcome back to The Manqué. This is Monica Busch here. The editor in chief of Manqué, Joined with Mary Stathos. Those hello waving. Asked her usual. Um, we're all hunkered down in quarantine land. I haven't seen you. Have I not seen you since January? No,
I saw you, like, two weeks before this all happened.
Time is a flat circle. I really can't keep track of it. I was listening to an episode we released a couple weeks ago in which we had not seen each other since January. And I could not remember if I actually seen you since we recorded that episode, but we made margaritas. Oh, right when Alison moved in. Okay, Yeah, that was the first. Like we kind of march. Okay, so it's been a month. Jesus Christ. Well, we don't need to linger on this. The world is on fire. I'm tired of talking about it. I'm tired of reading about it. I wish I could open my phone and look at any social media without being inundated with how the economy is just crashing and people are miserable and no one has any money. Goes on the end and we're out. Something that is exciting, at least for us, is that in the last ah, we can have. Two weeks ago, we launched up a tree on which is exciting. Just want to mention that before we get into things. Uh, it's soon. It's early stages, but we had a way, just like some background. We did have a way to monetize a little bit on the website. We're accepting donations and, like you could be a regular subscriber, a regular donator or whatever, or you could donate once in a while. But Patron is just better. It's a better interface. It's more flexible, and you can add tears and you can post like subscriber unique content there. So that is up and running at this point, like the entire point of that is like Mary and I make absolutely no money doing this. The entire point is literally to cover our costs for maintaining the website and like hosting the podcast and eventually to pay ourselves the people who submit to the magazine. Because that's like a huge priority. Um, so you should check that out its patron dot com slash monk am ink M a n Q u e we will continue to harass me about that. And it's also, I guess, worth mentioning just well, word on the topic that we are across Social Media Channel. So if you haven't followed us on instagram and Twitter and feast but you should definitely do that were everywhere under Manqué magazine. But in any event, getting into the actual plan cast episode I thought it would be called it kind of tell people, since we're all stuck at home right now doing absolutely nothing. For the most part, I wanted to ask you marry, what media have you been consuming lately? You were watching. I know a concert before this.
Yeah, so I've been watching a lot of live streams. Um, I just watched the Spanish love songs live stream. They did. Their entire big third album starts finished, which was cool citizen to your anniversary of that. And I've also been watching Ah, Colonel eyes,
Right. You said you the other day. What was your reference of point for? How many episodes you watched or something like that? You said like an insane amount of hours or episodes over a few days, or I don't know.
Uh, yeah, I watch, I don't know. Maybe five hours a day. It's a
part time job. Yeah, I've never seen a single episode of that, is it? Ah, Lake. Other crime dramas like there's a formula to it, right? Like it's the same.
Yeah, every episode is the same. But it's that consistency that I really love God and you know you're getting into. I respect that. It's not funny. It's not scary. It's not really anything. It's predictable. I love it. It's
not funny. It's just dead fan watching from for five hours a day home your Stasis except for your emotions
just laid in my bed. Feeling nothing, Elena doing nothing
in the womb. That's so funny. Yeah, I've been trying to say entertain, obviously. Like everybody else. I read Ah, little fires everywhere and about two days, Really. I actually, like 10 pages left of it, so I'm gonna finish that after we record this. But I felt a little behind on picking that book up because it's been number one. I think of the New York Times best seller list for, like, a 1,000,000 years. But it was for a vessel for good reason like it was a very compelling story, and I'm enjoying that. Um, what else have I been? Nate and I watched all of the Indiana Jones, which is to say that we started them and he finished them, and I fell sleep through two out of three of them in rapid succession over the course of 14 on. Otherwise I we were just talking about this. You've heard me say it a few times, but that new P Davidson movie on who? Lou? I really enjoyed it again. I didn't watch last 10 minutes, but it's nice to just see B Davidson basically get paid to be exactly who you think he already is, which it's like kind of a white trash dirtbag. Sorry, D David. It's and much love to Pete Davidson, but like you can come. I mean, like, I can admit that I can also be very much into white trash whore bag. So that is exactly my type. Oh, I did watch a live stream to the Ben Gibbard live streams. I've started watching some of them, but they also make me, like, really emotional nostalgic, so I don't know how much of it I can stomach. I've listened to like two hours while baking the other day on Instagram Live, my new hobby and I just got so like said I was like frowning, just like making chocolate chip cookies listening told Death Cab for Q
B. Yeah, I think I watched maybe 10 minutes if that of one of his life streams. And I was like, I'm said, uh, yeah, and it's the old
ones, too. So it, like, really brings me back. And I'm like, Allowed to be sad and 14 Excited. I'm 27. Still, that's actually probably a good jumping off point into what we're gonna talk about today. Um, I thought it would be fun to talk about coming of age stories. The building's Ramones, probably partially because, like, well, everyone loves them. I love them. I just like I will watch them. I will read them, mounts up. But you and I in particular, are always talking about nostalgia, and I think this is like very much in the vein of the nostalgia thread, especially as we're adults that continue to, like, take in these stories about basically just being a teenager. Um, do you like, Do you think about the fact that something that you're reading or watching is like a coming of age story? Or does that not even like register for you? Like I'm just curious. If that's like a conscious thing like air, you like, Oh, this says coming of age story. I'm gonna read it or I'm gonna watch it or like like it doesn't register to you as a genre.
I don't think I seek out the drama of her say, but yes, like when something isn't coming in the gate story, it isn't coming of age story.
I guess I'm just asking that because, like sometimes I can't tell if I'm like just like my brain is broken from, like studying English and, like writers are always writing about, like their youth and stuff like that. So, like even when it's not fiction, it's like always a coming of age story, too. So I guess I'm trying to get the temperature of somebody like isn't like hasn't drowned in that lake
cess pool. Yeah, no, I feel like I mean this interesting looking at life were examples across time list that you made him like Are you like notes for the episode that those for me where would not necessarily waas that I would put all of them is a coming of age novel for like, the outsiders, for example, I wouldn't necessarily call it coming of age story.
Really? Oh, wow. To me, that was, like, one of the most obvious examples. Interesting.
Yeah, because I feel like that's a bit more like I'm just like a story.
Whoa. I think something that maybe I didn't even have in this definition I wrote down Well, let's, like, jump into that first Muslim. Okay, let me make a quick note to bring that true. Uh, let's bring high notes. Oh, no, my pen doesn't work. Um, okay, so I just like lifted from Ricky is a reference point because I'm lazy. Wikipedia couches the idea of becoming a major story in terms of literary criticism, which is interesting to me because I never considered the genre or the terminology to be strictly related to a literary criticism. But I guess it is a tool for literary critics to use to classify whatever piece of media they're talking about. But it's ah, coming of age story. Also notice the building's Ramal. Um ISA literary genre that focuses on the psychological and moral growth of the protagonist, from youth to adulthood, in which character change is important. The term comes from German. I didn't know this the German words build own, which is education, and Roman, which is novel. And this could be translated into English as a novel of formation, education, culture, coming of age story. But I think that speaks of the outsiders with one of the reasons. That definitely seems to me to be a building's reminder. Like Why I thought of as coming of age is because they almost always have, like, some sort of trauma event, like there's a loss of innocence. It occurs, and I feel like, maybe perhaps lazily, that's often like the crux of, like most coming of age stories like Here's a kid who That's why I think like a lot of coming of age stories like Molly Ringwald, movies come to mind. A lot of them are like, Oh, character has a crush on someone else And then they find out that that crush is a really shitty person or that crushed like, totally fucks them over like that's like a very based example. But like that's like a very common plotline. And it's always like disillusionment, loss of innocents, realizing that it's like you lose your rose colored glasses. Yeah, I don't know.
Okay, so I guess my question, that is, what is the difference between a young adult novel coming of age novel?
To me, the difference is that I think that it's, Ah, square rectangle sort of situation because not all Wyatt novels are coming of age. I think they're why a. Primarily because of the age of the characters and they might be dealing with some of the issues that are common in coming of age stories. But with Wyatt novels, I think like it's more just classified Is that because the main characters are like whatever the age demographic is, which I don't know exactly, it's really like what, 12 to 21 or something? There is like there is a definitive range in the publishing industry, and I think it's something like that. So, like it could be a story about like you were talking about before we went on the air. But like a lot of coming of age, stories are just own upcoming issue. Why novels are. A lot of them are dystopian, so it could be like a whole science epic science fiction epic. But like I don't know is that I don't know. Do you think I don't think that's necessarily like a loss of innocence or like a maturing that has to happen? I don't know. Mmm. I feel like you've read more y even I have. Though
I I love young adult novels. I like. That was I read so much when I was a kid. That was my job. Round choice.
Yeah, it was definitely mine for a little while. I went in and out. I went to Barnes and Noble a few weeks ago, and I was shocked at how huge there y a section is like it's frickin massive compared to last time that I looked for it or whatever. You can't miss it. The below the one I was that it was just like at least like to full shelves like massive, full size shelves of just like packed to the brim hard covers Y es. It was so insane. I mean, like, I know it's a popular genre, but I feel like like I used to work in a bookstore and we had a Y a section, but it was small. So I was crazy to me to see how much that has changed in, like however many years, that's bad. Like, uh, eight years, probably since I work in a bookstore. So, yeah, I mean, this is like my opinion. I can't give you a definitive difference, but I I would I would be inclined to say It's like a square rectangle situation. I don't know. I feel like you could probably argue the other way. But that's kind of like the bullshit about, like a little literary criticism is like there's always kind of room to argue the other way as long as you can, like back yourself up in your opinions. Uh,
I've noticed them being the same.
Now that I'm like saying it out loud, I kind of can, too. I thought I knew that there was a difference.
Is it just the same time young adult fiction is almost always coming of age? Trouble
you like? I guess it iss illegal, even just if you consider the fact that, like how much a person grows up in the span like three months is a teenager like obviously, that timeline is gonna be reflected in a book about teenagers. Mm, yeah, but my guess is it's a tricky question because, like, the main character of any story should ostensibly change between the beginning and the end, regardless of how old they are. And then
I get when you're looking hat adolescents and they're coming of age when they're growing up.
Yeah, like, no matter what, like that's what's going on in the background. Well, I'm glad that we talked ourselves into a circle as usual have Absolutely no it, um, there are, like, coming of age stories I've been around for, like ever. I compiled a list of basically just like stories that I was familiar with lifted also from the Internet. But there are some really old ones, um, that are considered really old stories that are considered coming of age. Like Candied by Voltaire, which was published in 17 59 is considered a coming of age story, the life and opinions of Tristram Shandy, my Lawrence Turner, and that came out in 17 59 as well, which is really
weird to think
about. That was really weird. I read that book in college, and it was like, Go. I mean, it was good. There's a really weird movie, but it's ah, it's like if I assume you haven't read it like no one has read it unless they dio it's this really crazy story and it's really meta like it's the narrator's aware that there's a story and it's really zany and like, silly and hard to follow. And there's for example, there are, like, several pages in the middle of the book that is blank and like That's like a meta reference to whatever the hell was going on in the book at that point in time. It's like, really difficult. It reminds you of Ulysses and that it's like very like, self referential and, um, just really stream of consciousness, which is not really my shit. But then there's also like Jane Austen novels like Emma, which came out in 18 15 Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, which came out 18 18. Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte, which came out in 18 47 same years, her sister's book Weathering Heights. Little Women, which I probably wouldn't have even thought of that if I hadn't regret it. recently, but I also didn't think of this. I lifted this from the Internet. I came out in 18 69 and then, more recently, like obviously a portrait of the artist. This is a Young Man, by James Joyce Came Out 1916. Native Son, by Richard Wright 1940 Catcher in the Rye, J. D. Salinger 1951. The Outsiders by S. E. Hinton 1967 Goldfinch, by Donna Tartt Came out 2013. The Idiot by Elephant Human, which came out in 2017. This must really to meet us, Illustrated that, like we've been obsessed with adolescence in, like, coming of age for so long, Like we obviously like candy. It is like one of the the most like, obnoxiously pedestal, like classic stories like Wolverine can't Beat a Burning Voltaire. And it's funny to me that it's classified. Is that because I think that we have like this, like by a second's coming of age stories at the same time, like we all love them. But we also I don't know, I might just going off on a tangent I'm not prepared to talk about, but like it's funny to me to like see like, really, like fancy classic literature be like, Oh, this is a coming of age story and then also, like, um, book smart. Like the movie that, like everyone was obsessed with, like a year ago, whatever. Like actually be in the same genre. I mean, not the book. Smart isn't like a smart book, but it's on more of referencing, like the biases against young voices and like stories about young people. I
think John Green is a good example of that. That those books are really seen as, like
Crash. Yeah, yeah, I've never read them, but that's because I don't like like cancer stories.
They're all cancers E. I saw 50
50 and theaters, whatever it was in theaters, and I had a nightmare that I had brain cancer. It's not good for my head foot contra really bad. Um, but I was began book smart, and I mean in 50 50 or whatever they can also be movies. I mean, most recently there was book smart. Like I said, Ladybird obviously is a big example. The edge of 17 which was really good, um, in eighth grade and some older ones not older, but sort of old, early Juno and Herald in mod, like virtually anything with Molly Ringwald in it in the eighties Collins John Hughes movies. So, like we're pretty saturated in them, which is interesting to me, which makes me wanna consider or, like, ask myself, Why do I love them and, like, Why do people to seem to love them in general?
So this is something that I prepared to talk about a little bit. So what? I think we're really fascinated with this age one, Because for ourselves, this age is really awkward and uncomfortable, and our bodies were going through changes. And so there's this relate ability to reading about it in other people. Going through either in the same thing or going through sort of a better or different thing than us sit like it either, makes it seem, were perfect and attainable. But like we can have this great adolescence or there are other books that are like commiserating with the horrors of adolescence. And I think the other thing that makes it really interesting to us is that teens in general are really dramatic, and it's one of the only times were It's an acceptable time to be really dramatic and to be exploring in the way that adolescents do. So this is considered like for a mess, psychological standpoint, sort of this age of exploration. And it's where adolescents are designing, whether gonna wear who they're gonna be friends when there's all these ships in sexuality in, um, it's like substance use use, experimenting with identity in general. And there's a lot of reasons behind this. The number one reason is like the prefrontal cortex is not fully developed and doesn't fully developed, and so doesn't believe it'll brother until they did 25. So the prefrontal cortex is basically not as like the brakes for your brain in this where, like impulsivity, starts to slow down. So when during these coming of age novels, everything can happen really quickly. And there's no expectation burning Carter to think through any of the consequences of what they're doing. A good example, being like the Hunger Games, when Katniss Everdeen, the main character volunteers, is a tribute inside of her sister. But there's no like Why don't you think this through hamsters? We know she's going to be impulsively no characters. We're going to try something new and do things quickly without really thinking through any of what they're doing. They think it makes it easier to relate to them without it sort of being like, Why is this 30 to 40 year old not like making any smart decisions? Does that make sense?
Yeah. No, it definitely does. I hadn't thought about it in that way, but that is like the jumping off point of Excuse me, so many coming of age stories. It's like, Oh, the main character just like did something really impulsive. Yeah, and
it's It makes sense for them to do that. And I think there's also this, like, age of sort of innocence where we're still kids. They're still learning adolescents, learning new things, and there's like, other coming of age stories that are more coming into, like middle age or coming to adulthood. But I think coming into adolescence, particularly in coming into this like young adulthood, is fascinating. Tess he has. There's so much learning in general, lack of life experience that you can have a book. Um, we talked about this before. Oh, you could have a book that takes place over three months, man, and there's so much learning that naturally happens during that aims during a time that it's not unrealistic. Burgh character In a three month span, tohave developed an entirely new identity. Where is what do you think about a more adult person? You wouldn't really expect that because there's only logistical challenges for them to be able to, like, reinvent themselves in that short amount of
time. Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I do want to mention that, like, I do think that there are definitely coming of age stories that aren't teenagers or about like teenagers coming into their twenties or even in college, which is interesting, like the movie Garden State comes to mind when I think about that, because he's like a full adult. But it's definitely also still a coming of age story. Have you seen Garden State? No. Wow. I'm like, I've always impressed with how many movies you haven't seen that I just feel like are so up your alley that it's shocking to me. Um, I mean, I don't know. How about Garden State aged, but it's basically, you know, like Zach Braff plays this character who's been treated like heavily medicated for like a really long time because he had an outburst as a child and hurt his mother really badly. And he it goes off his meds like it's this holding were like his dad is a psychologist or whatever. So like his, which is like, I am a good number. But he, like, just prescribed him a ton of medication and attempt like fix him or whatever. And then he goes off his meds and like fall blah blah and Mike tries to, like, come to terms with his relationship with his father, that sort of thing, and it's like a coming of age story, but he's definitely like a full fledged adult at that point, but it still has a lot of things in common. Um, but so I was thinking about why people love coming of age stories, and I think there's a lot of a lot of it includes, like stuff you you just had, so I don't want to overlap. But I think that there's like a an inherent universality because a sensibly, if you're growing up, if you live to be a to a certain beach, you are gonna have some common experiences of people and these experiences are going to exceed or intersex class, religion, race. Um, and some of those are, you know, like a burgeoning sexuality. Trying substances is a big mind. Obviously, I feel like that's almost a little over done. And why it or not? Why a But see, now I'm gonna start saying why when I mean coming of its think haven't Rhoda, why you looking like a 1,000,000 years? Um, substance use and abuse is a huge theme in kept coming of age stories. And we could talk about that. We could probably do a whole episode about that. Um, but then there's also a deepening relationships, whether that's like romantic or friendship, and like trying to figure out where those relationships are, like what role they play in your life going forward, separating ourselves from our parents is a big one, questioning the way we were raised, developing independence and thinking about what it means for childhood to end. You know, there's a lot of like what is it all me and like, what kind of person do I want to be questions being asked? And then, just like general disillusionment and an expo increased exposure to the ills of the world, which, when I say that I'm really talking about what I said earlier about, like a loss of innocence. Um, what I do think is when I'm thinking about like, Why are they so profitable? Like we just, like, keep pumping them out, like in movie form, especially, but also in book form. And I think that when I was reading them as a teenager, to me they were like guidebooks like I would look at these stories and be like This is like in a way would justify some of my like behavior, like you'd be like, Oh, it's normal to try alcohol at such and such an age and it's like normal toe, like try whatever drug it such and such, and it is normal to sneak out. It's normal to get in fights with your parents like it's like normal to do a lot of stuff that I was doing. Like I was looking for someone to tell me it was okay, and I
don't know if that's
good or bad. In hindsight, like it's good to not feel alone, but also do they sometimes reinforce negative behaviors? I don't I don't know. I don't know. Like if I could make like a judgment Colin, whether that's good or bad. Um, but then a adult, I think I think we look back at them. It's history books, like when I'm thinking about my own experience, like rewatching the park, sitting a wallflower or like re watching any of the coming of age movies that I love like dazed and confused or almost famous. It's like looking like even though it's not your history, you still remember those common experiences. And I think that we I think, I think also probably we project our experiences onto these narratives. So we're like It's like looking for a scrapbook of like what it's like to be a teenager, even though it's someone else's life, like vicariously living through their memories. And but I still don't completely know why we're so obsessed with them because it's sort of like I feel like for every romance, there's like a coming of age story like they're so popular, like the Ark, of becoming a big story. You like, absolutely love them, I don't know. So I guess there's probably, like a nostalgia thing, a nostalgia aspect wrapped up in there.
Any part of it is that this soldier and I think also there are so many universal experiences to adolescence where all of us are in school. All of us are developing friendships, relationships and going through early basically puberty. Really. There is no other time in our lives where we're so universally acted.
Yeah, that's a great point. That is super true. If
you're reading a coming of age story about someone who's like coming into bigger, like maybe like mid twenties early thirties and they're out of college, The autumn of being as relatable to you has someone who's in middle school or high school is just so slim. Yeah, because there's this divergence of experiences that happens around really probably like 17 18 years old, for people start to go in really different tracks, whereas these books are really universal. And I think part of the reason why they're pumped out so frequently, especially now, is that the experience is changing so rapidly.
Mmm mmm, mmm mmm, yeah. Like with the Internet and cell phones and stuff.
And I also think that there's a bit of confirmation bias as to why we feel like these books are self revealing. You're like, so relatable Tough us because there are so many of them that you can really pick which ones really to you And you're like the most.
Yeah, that's a good point. I definitely did that growing up. Even now,
I think we can look at these books and say the books that were sort of like my pop looks really spoke to me and I could read them over and over and feel so that could be related to them. And there are hundreds, if not thousands, of books that are not on this list. Likely that I would early too much less.
That's a really good point. What do you think her that? Because we're going to get into our, like, our list of favorites. But what do you think are some of the things that you look for liking a coming of age story, like what aspects draw you in or do you really too?
I feel like for me, um, in my adolescence was like and this is something that just, like, happens at this time that, like mental, unless starts to really set in for people and so for me. This is when I first started experiencing in tendencies of Berlin personality disorder in tendencies of like, severe depression and anxiety. And so a lot of the books that I ran really reflected that and normalized a lot of those experiences.
Yeah, looking at my list of minus definitely a lot of like outsider complexes, which is like something extra gold with like I always like was like struggling to feel like I fit in and then also just moving around a lot like I was constantly trying, tow fit in again like I would get comfortable and then have to all of a sudden weasel my way into of another social landscape or environment and a new high school in Newtown. And it's funny because I think that we sort of sort of talking about this before we started recording. But like, I didn't notice that there was a common thread in mine until you kind of mentioned that there was a common thread and yours, and I think that's really funny. And it goes along with exactly what you were just saying, like Dubey just, um, it's sort of like that for a living off our coat like Do we accept the love we think we deserve? Waiting for me in the company of age story that it's actually just a mirror A lot, which is a good jumping point to talk about our favorites, which I'm excited to d'oh! And of course, we both have the perks tipping off our on our list. So yeah, I think it was number one for me. You're like it has to be on. He said that you even regret it recently. Um, when How did you get introduced to that book?
My eighth grade English teacher gave me a copy of it. No kidding, but a cool English teacher I still have but copping the like originally was given in the gun. It's like, so like falling apart.
Yeah, I, like gave my copy away and, like, an emotional goodbye pushes Justus bad. It's still having. And I think, um, yeah, I think it was recommended to me by my friend Ben. We used to share Booker combinations a lot. I think it was him. I feel like it's gotta be him. And I did like in my friend group. I don't know about yours, but this book like went. What I can only describe is like viral. Yes. Yeah, you're like not Yeah, you know everyone, right? I gave us everybody. I told everyone to read it. Everyone was telling everyone else to read it. It was, like crazy, like wildfire. And it wasn't even knew, right? Like, didn't come out a while ago. Like in the nineties. It did come out in the night, You and then I have this, like, really strange resurgence. Are you talking to copyright date on my goodness. But Mark my sister. Oh, my God. That cover in the seventh grade. I was thinking about this before we even decided to do this episode in the seventh grade. We were like doing his paint projects. And I like, basically made what now I would call fan art of this book like in class. And it was like this big elaborate yet yellow painting with, like, quotes written from the book over it,
booking out in 18 89
99. Okay, that's later than I thought. But still, I have never as of that older, I've not really been able to figure out per se what it is about this book that made everybody go crazy. It's really quotable. I mean, there's definitely that going for it. I
think there are so many common experiences. There's like questioning sexuality. There's problems at home. There's abusive relationships. There's abuse. There's just like the story about, like love and acceptance and friendship. It's like a great story about friendship in a great story about last.
Yeah, it also really highlights a lot of like the under bellies of our average lives. Like in a way that doesn't romanticizing it like there isn't a solution for every problem, right? Like I'm thinking about, like, the abusive older brother to like, wasn't he like, hits the his sister Charlie, Sister the boyfriends? Yeah, like I don't Do they ever resolve that? Like, I don't remember a resolution that's just like one conflict that I'm thinking of. But there are several where I don't feel like like people get up, get over things or like they learn to live with the problems that they're experiencing in that book. But not a lot of people, like get their problems aren't fixed at the end. Yeah,
No, actually, the problems get a lot worse. Is the book goes on, and I think that is really a lot of it. It's not. It doesn't glorify adolescence in a way that some other books D'oh!
Yeah, yeah, with the exception of that scene in the tunnel. But even then I mean, like, everywhere everyone's adolescence has, like good parts and stuff like that. And at the
same time, that is one of the, like, Lehman's things that you could do like it's just someone doing something really lame. Yeah, uh, he's driving around his friends and like that, for him is like the peak of his wife in that moment.
Yeah, which, like I definitely relate. When I was a teenager there, that was definitely, like, the peak of my life at various times.
Yeah, rather than, like, we've done something like amazing. It's just him driving in, standing in the back of a pickup for gonna fall. Yeah, and I think for that reason, it's like a very special book. It's about an awkward kid. It has an average or, like, slightly below average life.
Yeah. Did you pick up on the fact that he had been abused by his aunt when you read it? Yeah, I didn't at all. Like for years, I had no idea. I completely missed that. He didn't seem obvious to me at all. I like could not understand. Like where that came from. It even honestly, when I was looking at the movie like the movie really plays it up like they're like, you're gonna get it. You're gonna get that he was abused by spot, but it felt really forced to me in the movie, like all those flashbacks and stuff. Like, I don't consider this to be a book about being abused by his aunt, but I guess like it is, I don't know, that could just be because my own history. But I was weird to me that I never like I'm usually really good at picking up on themes and, like, implications and stuff. And I just like no idea. Yeah, the book. I mean, the
book us two, you made, like, depressing themes throughout it. And the first is that, like the first few pages of the book he talks about, his friend committed suicide. Yeah, and then the second part of the book is that is on and used him. And in the book, just I read this in November, and I read it very closely. Um, there are multiple flashbacks about the abuse and, like, things that had happened. And there's a whole section of the book that explains the abuse,
like in the book itself. Or like at the end. What do you mean? You know, I wish I had a copy in front of me. I don't have it anymore. And glass when I give last when he had to give away to my brother,
it does. There is a section of the book where it talks about how is on abused him. I am not able to find it. And I don't want this whole pot has to be me slipping through this book.
Fair enough. Fair enough. I'm gonna have to look into that would be a good thing. D'oh! Right about, um, in any event, I mean, yeah, I was obsessed with that book I like. How'd it quoted every way? Er, I did, like, do crazy things. Like I tried to read all the books on his list. I didn't get through all of them to this day, but like that was like a reading guy for me Through much of high school like all of the books that his teacher was giving him, Um, also, I remember downloading illegally on whatever limewire type sort of thing. There were like zip packages that had a playlist for like all the songs mentioned in the book.
Yeah, this I remember, like pretending so hard like this. Yes, Theo. Only
reason I've ever really listen to this myth is because of that book.
I had a boyfriend who loved this. Myths, um, loved this myths. So
as much as anyone can.
And I like this minute snow. Yeah, I had a boyfriend like in my like right after college who loved the Smiths.
I like them. I don't like Morrissey is such a piece of shit that it's a place like it's it's hard because it's one of those things we have to divorce, how shitty he is from the music and I don't know, also Asleep, which is the song they talk about in the book is so gentle Address, because it's different is so different than the rest of their music. You made it. I'm like having it. Not this thing needs to see. It's so weird,
but I still distinctly remember listening not on YouTube. And I was like, This can't be the right song.
I I want to see there must be a playlist on Spotify. Imagine if we could just, like, look that stuff up. Yeah, well, that's the actual movie soundtrack I want. Like to find a playlist. Okay. At this one, this would be the right one. Yeah. It starts with asleep Scarborough Fair. I don't know, Olive. A songs. Uh, Gypsy Bases and Vega Daydream by the Smashing Pumpkins desk by Jensen. It's funny how many of these bands, like I didn't know who Genesis Waas or like Suzanne Vega or Simon and Garfunkel when I was, like, downloading these police playlists. Landslide by Fleetwood Mac. This is so cringing. Smells like Teen Spirit School's Out by Alice Cooper. This is so funny. Ah, Are there any other teen age riot? Come on. Alien area. That's good. Cove it 19 duty. 00 Men were Florentine doing great. Feeling fine. Um, yeah. I think that what I loved about that book was also that it was just like it was so honest. Like, we're kind of talking around that fact, but he just like I. That is like what developed my appreciation for just like deadpan observation about what's going on, which is funny that I ended up doing journalism after college because I never thought I wanted to be a journalist, um, for a long time growing up. But that's like what he does. He's like reporting on which went on around him. Yeah, he's not like the Sun was great and I was so excited. He's like, I don't know, he does that thing that you do in journalism where you try not to editorialize but you still, I kind of get the vibe across. I don't know, but yeah, it's like a log of like his adolescence. Anyways, I could we talk about this book forever. Other ones on my top list or a Little Women and Anne of Green Gables, which I put together because they're like old tiny women. Um, I've re read little women in December, and it was so much better than I remembered as a child. Did you ever
read it? I never read a little
bit. Now it's really hard to read now because it's hard to get into because the writing style is really choppy, and I forgot the Louisa May Alcott like breaks the fourth wall a lot like she'll turn and she'll, like, make moral judgments about stuff that's going on in the book, like about what the characters are doing. Like should I tell you that they're making the wrong choice, which is weird. I like didn't remember being some moralizing and obviously, I mean, like, there's been so much written and said about little women lately that I don't even want to talk about it. I'm kind of like a fatigue from little women. But Anna Green Gables, we like both last ditch. Remember this one, I think are really excited. Was obsessed with the movie. Is growing up more so than the books I have to admit. I went to it. Green Gables, The in Canada, in Canada. Yeah. God, I've talked to trying to go there in the last few years. Was it awesome?
It was very beautiful. Yeah, my like boyfriend in high school, his family had like a house near there was super cool for like a week one
summer. Oh, that's so nice. I always think of grand of Green Gables when I use the phrase kindred spirit. Yeah, I think also, whatever the current that they were drinking, I always think of and a green Gables in every like sea. Current blackberry juice. What a nightmare. Imagine, just like accidentally getting wasted at your friend's house like totally by accident, I guess. A teenager. That would be a nightmare. Oh God, I loved the boats. I don't know. I've I remember reading, like, 3/4 of an Angry Gables and I don't know if I ever finished. It is sad, very sad. Did you watch the remake on Netflix? It all and with Annie? No, I watched the 1st 2 seasons. I like it. It's weird because she's actually like the appropriate age in this remake. It's like she's actually like 12 instead of being like 17 and like she is in the other like famous movie adaptation, Um, I also really liked Anna Babin Lee the movie, but that I mean, like, did you ever watch like the old movie adaptations that I'm talking there so long? There's like there's like there's like six hours long, and it's like I don't think it's criteria on, but it's like something like that. Uh, did you read an of avidly I did that. I don't I know I did it when she's a teacher and she has the Pringle Children gets? Yes, and they're absolute nightmares. Uh, I think about that a lot.
Oh, Did you ever Pippi Longstocking. I was loved those together.
No, I didn't. Oh, my
God. I loved to be long talking.
I can see that they go together based on, like, the movie that I saw.
They don't really They just are both about girls with red hair.
Okay, I guess I just like, think they're older. I probably think could be long stockings is older than it is. Dylan Song is from a long face. You just made your resolve to google it like brows furrowed. How
old is Pippi Longstocking? Sze? You came out and Oh, it's not nearly as old as I thought it was. The birth of S M A B. Yeah, the Louis him out of 1969. The wow book came out of 1945.
Okay, Yeah. Okay, so not quite Antegren cables, but cold Another. I couldn't decide between both Donna Tartt books The secret history in the goldfinch there So different, like they're so different. I read the goldfinch whenever it came out, like five years ago. Seven years ago. God, I came in like seven years ago. God, time is too much. It is so long. I'm excited. I don't okay. I think it's like the movie's in production. But it's like one of those things was like Is ever gonna come out like I don't know, Like I feel like they've been advertising it for, like, two years. Uh, it's so long. It's so dense, but it is definitely coming of age story, but I don't know. I like honestly, it's been so long since I've read it that I don't even feel like I'm authority to talk about it. But I did read us the secret history after the fact, which is funny because the book was came out like something insane like 20 years apart. And oh, to be that writer who could write like two extremely good books 20 years apart and everyone like and still have a career that's nice. That's a nice life. If I could just, like, produce one thing every 20 years and have that keep me going, I think that would be sick. Um, the secret history is like it. It's it's like college porn, but like, not college porn, it's fake. I describe it. It's like, um, a while, you know, it's like, uh, it's like next story porn for, like, people who like like Gilmore Girls and who, like I feel like Gossip Girl like if you like things that take place and like, very like WASPy like I bi colored like New England de elite sporting school like I was obsessive, like boarding school stories as a child. It's like very in line with that, and it takes place it like a boo. Gee, Vermont College, Private College. And this, like outsider, which I'm obsessed with, like falls in with this really close group of friends who are studying classics under this like Independent Source study program with this like fancy elite professor that the hero worship, which is the best. You love to see that, and they try to have, like a real boxing, all like a real one and some in Bacchus, and it's a lot like there's a murder like there's a lot that goes on in there, but that book like hits all the right notes for like, I the only way I can describe it is like it's like for fans of people who, like are obsessive like Gilmore Girls and stuff like that. And like the idea, like the Ivy colored boarding school, um, in that sort of thing. But, I mean, it was absolutely freaking riveting. And I don't know, I guess that's like another example, like disillusionment because like the kid goes to college and he's like, I'm sitting under this amazing professor and I have this amazing group of friends Hope turns out, they're all actually psychotic. And, ah so murderers cool. I love to see it.
Well, the 1st 1 on my list it is. Are you there? God, it's me, Margaret, which he made when I think of coming of age stories, that's like besides a person being alarmist. The second he told me you were coming with us, I was like the perks of being clearly, um, building. That's the bug, Billy explains. What, like a period is and it also like three like mixed puberty feel exciting, livable genre, isn't it? I want you out of my way, Yeah, but it's like it makes it special and also makes it like, awkward, like it's super awkward. And she's like asking your mom for a bra like trying to wear Thanks, Yeah, endearing. In hindsight,
Yeah, I told you my story with that is that I was reading all Judy Blume books because I would like I still do this. I would like picking author and I'll read one book and love it and be like, All right, I'm gonna read all of books, is on the road. And so I just like to take out every Judy Blume book in a row with the library and I just like that into the pile. And I hadn't like on my period, and I didn't know what that book was about. And it was like scarring because I was like, reading all the other Judy Blume books. And then I just like, fell, tripped and fell into this like, pro long story about wanting to have your period so badly. And it's always finding to me like no one said anything when I was reading it. Like like no, like when I picked it out like there was no one, No one, no adults, no, my mother, not a librarian who was, like, even blinked. And I and I was like, Okay, thanks, guys, for the warning. I mean, I would have still read it, but I just thought it was so clear that everyone knew what this book was about. And no one told me. It's like if you picked up 50 shades of grey and, like, no one like you didn't know it was poured.
E what the hell? Yeah. No one was like, You're gonna read porn, okay? Yeah, like
someone would say something. Yeah, I know Judy Blume. And I love you, too. I want to revisit these books, but at the same time, I'm scared, too, because I hear sometimes it like when you go back and read the books that you love, that they just, like, don't stand the test of time. And then it's like you're disillusioned when you come of age again. Yes. You're like the Thanksgiving of wealth are definitely stands
against the test of all time. Did you like the
movie for perks of being a wallflower? No. You didn't like it, okay? I liked it. I thought they did. Okay. I thought they did. They exceeded my expectations, is what I can say.
They cell show short of my ex. But oh, my God. Why? I've only seen it one time. I thought in theaters like the week that it came out, I was so excited, and I almost cried. It was so bad. But men is that they didn't know it was like some super regulars on. I can't remember when. My head, Um so any of the things they're not in it, I
can't remember. I have no memory.
And I thought it was cheesy. I got on the Watson didn't do every job. Is
Sam. Yeah, she, like, didn't fit. What I was imagining with Sam at all
they describe sama is like because it's like this long hair and that you hang them, Watson Powder short, pixie cut noses like they could have found a better offers.
I didn't think of her as the manic pixie dream girl at all in the book. Issued late. Wasn't right. Okay, I'm glad you just confirmed that. Because that was my one of my biggest problem with the movie. Was Emma Watson making Herbie this like, manic pixie dream girl? Yeah, Like forcing him to fall in love with her, just like overtly flirting with him, just like doing everything she could to, like, fertilize that attraction. But in the book, she doesn't really do it in the book. She's just nice, but in the movie it comes across is like extremely flirty. Yeah, I just It wasn't for me, which misses the point, right? It's like, of course you're gonna be attracted to this, like older, like pretty girl who's like, really nice to you and gives you tons of attention and, like, bats her eyes at you constantly like like, yeah, um, I like, want to revisit it, though I guess there's plenty of time with quarantine.
Yeah, there you got. Also. We'll go
should order the book.
Ah, what else do you have on your list? On my list? I have the Hunger Games. I never read that I really liked them, and then the movies came out. They were disappointing, but I
always looked terrible to May
the hundreds also like, I didn't think you knew to be a trilogy and could have been like one or two books, and I just got, like, increasingly murder. So like that series itself wasn't like that. Greedy. And I don't really know what it taught me about coming in age. But now I know what it's talking about. Coming fissile. What? Mary, if they're all going to live in District's because the world is ending, it's actually just a quarantine metaphor. Yeah, um, district. Their team was just like the East Coast. So we're all going to be, like, What were they miners?
I don't know idea,
though. Uh, get ready, guys. E I like
know what you're talking about sex. I was like, Wait Garrity for oh, we're all gonna be mine Around the East Coast are ex coast
elite over here. Yeah, um, and then the uglies is another Siri's that I really liked. But I feel like despite being a dystopian novel to teach me a lot about our obsession with, like, beauty to Devery the uglies.
Yes, I did. I run uglies, pretties and specials. I didn't read whatever. 4th 1 came out
I read before going, but I read it three years ago. Uh,
didn't even really like the specials that much. I remember, like, really liking uglies and pretties. And then,
like all dystopian Siri's, they get so fucking weird were like this one. Random girl for no reason is gonna over for the establishment.
Yeah, Yeah, they take it too far. That's like the case of, like, everything, even like TV shows that too many seasons. Yeah, that's, like, shameless. Like, how is that show still on air? I don't know. The first, Like two seasons fucking mint. At this point, they've lost half the
cast. What is even happening more Yes, I think the ugliest, like, said a lot about, like, societal beauty standards. I thought it was, like, really good. Like for its on toe, Like, be saying like, I would everyone be happier if they were pretty.
Yeah, And that was ahead of its time, I think because obviously it spoke to something that was true, like in magazine culture, like MTV culture or whatever. Like, I don't know what I would call it like that, because those books I was reading them in, like, 2000 6007. And that was like a peak lake. I don't even know if I want it. Like, almost like like that anorexic. A red carpet look was still really hot at that point. in time. And like, I don't know, the beauty standards were being promulgated, I guess, by the tabloids. But I felt like it was, verily ahead of its time with, like, influencer stuff that didn't really exist
yet. Yeah, And then you like the syriza's ahold of nothing for me but uglies itself, I think was really well, somewhere, even, like, impactful in that way. Like it was, like, imprinted on me to be like this shit. Stupid. Like when you have a really amazing culture. Um, And then thank you going you go. It's kind of a funny story. Is the next one for me. I don't know that one. So it's kind of funny story is about this kid who was really depressed and he checks himself into It's, like, bored.
Oh, no kidding. Is that a new where book or is it older? Um, sorry, I
just But what does it
before? I mean, I barely did. This is the half half ass half put together Show presented by Monica and Mary. No getting.
I was nice Buried by Ned Vizzini. I came out in 2006. Okay. All right, so that's settled. Not that old but Ned Vizzini, if you years ago she got on 13 committed suicide. Oh, jeez. So it was almost like he came out later to say that it was almost inaudible. Our fee. I have a word, um, of hiss life hiss, hospitalization as a child, Um, in the year died by suicide. They not that long after the female God, she's very sad, but the book itself is like, I think it really accurate. Look at what site possibles really are. Like it's not this, like, jolly good fun time leg even, um, girl interrupted isn't a glorified look. The movie in particular really work. I look at what site possibles are like. There's, like, this craziness, but really, it's like you're asking someone for your meds and like watching TV. And that's what this waas and I was
gonna ask you because I saw the girl interrupted was also on your list.
Girl interrupted for me like normalized Berlinger. Sally's were in a way that was really influential to me and like health of coming of each for me in that way as well as like, I really hope that it's nothing like being in the hospital with me.
Did you? Were you diagnosed with borderline when you first read that book? No. Oh, wow. That was some crazy.
Yeah, um, but then because you can't be diagnosis earlier eating.
Oh, is that because of, like, developmental milestones,
all personality disorders? Oh, I don't know why. You know, putting border lines.
That's interesting. We both also have we both also have the bell jar on our list, which is in line with sort of that exact vibe. Yeah, Mental on lettuce e. I feel like I understand the bell jar so much more as an adult than I did when I read it as a young teenager. Like, I was kind of like, Why does she have such a bad attitude? My Who's a teenager reading it? I'll go on record saying that
I'm psyched. Inspired by the builder, I think in my very mentally ill to make a difference, I heard. Oh, God. Um, yeah. Hey, but I see it now as it all. I've re read it. Um, I re read it after I graduated college and was, like, slightly more mentally stable. Uh, there was at any other time prior to that, and yet it's over dramatic
shit. Yeah, but I also like when I reread it in college. I also thought, like, Oh, wow, I like, really relate to like her disenchantment with everyone around her and, like, disinterest in, like, complying with what everyone wants. Yeah, I see both sides. Yeah. I mean, it's it's tricky because it's Sylvia Plath, and we know that it's like a semi autobiographical because novel like she did go into that writing program that she describes and things like that, like a lot of the stuff is like very Trudeau, her exact life. And so, of course it feels should because, you know, that she ultimately does diary suicide. Yeah, which it's so interesting to me. A fun fact. I learned about the whole stove thing. Did you know that, like, that was, like, extremely common. And then they had to, like, ban, those stoves of people would stop hurting themselves. What, you mean those stoves? Your band, like whatever type of stove that she used to like, hurt herself? Apparently. Well, I learned this from the armchair expert. God, guess I haven't looked this up. But what? According to that Dax Shepard thing, it's stoves in England. Whatever sort of like gas stoves they were using made it very easy for people to kill themselves. And so the idea was like, It's a question of like, if you take, like, the harmful tool or whatever away from people, well, people just find another way to hurt themselves. But they like they banned the stoves and, like suicide rates, like dropped dramatically, at least be a Yeah, I guess. Like in general, in England or whatever, once they got rid of them and like, phase them out, it
makes sense. Carmen. Outside poisoning It's like one of the easiest ways to like right He was right. It's funny because I was saying that, um because in my apartment, when I studied abroad, we until late our pilot legs by hand, that scares me. Every time we wanted to use the other, we would have to stick a match. They were just, like throw a lit match, intothe
safe and good. I I'm terrified of that. Believe it has to turn the gas on first. Yeah, I can't even do that to my burner. I like have to have, like, a really long lighter. I was so scared I'm gonna explode the stove or my hand.
Yeah, Italy is like, I want to say this in, like, the most sensitive way possible to Third World countries. Italy? No, that does not bode well, e I know in, like, the times of the Corona virus. Yeah, I get it. But late the shit that they do not have, like, readily available. Like most things, they don't have most things. I
just want to make so many bad jokes about, Like
pasta. They had pasta and wine and less strawberries me to know, but yeah, it Lee I don't know. I don't know about Italy. Probably trying to buy lighters or like matches.
You couldn't find them? No, that's so weird. I've never been to Italy.
We worked for I Beverly, three months eating cold food way Let our stove. What? We've just been late Every time we're
gonna get it, I Well, on topic. Another book on my list is the idiot. But human I'm sorry. Well, that was easy. Easy transition. That book is so good. It took me forever to read because I had, like, no attention span whenever I was reading it like a year and 1/2 ago. But, um, a weird thing that I've noticed is like a lot of these books all take place like in and around. I guess now that some stupid comment that's actually not true. It's really just a bell jar and the idiot both take place in Cambridge. Basically, for a lot of them will have their plot. The idiot is like she's at Harvard. I don't think she ever actually calls it Harvard. I'm saying this the way I'm talking about it is making sense, if you don't know. But it was another example of the book that's like, very autobiographical. I think that she started it Ellie 14 when I started it, kind of him seeing her last name right, started it as a memoir and then, like, did it just revisited it as a novel. So she could, you know, have fun with it basically, and it just makes it so much easier. Like I consider changing my I consider frequently taking my memoir thesis and changing it into a novel cause I think it would be less taxing like it would be easier to like. The artistic freedom of it just sounds really appealing anyways, Theirry, it is really good. That's another book about, like, not feeling like you fit in like she goes to Harvard and she's just like, weird. I think that she is the daughter of immigrants. I feel like she's not really Westernized and she's not really exposed to the world. Um, and she doesn't fit in with people in like the title is like a play on her feeling like an idiot all the time and the normal people. Why Sally Granny, I love that book and I know late like Sally Bernie is like having this like, huge moment Right now. She's like a KN overnight literary literary goddess for this book, and but I think that she deserves it. I don't know. I think this book was incredible. It's another coming of age novel about these two kids who, like go to high school together. Then they go to university together and like in high school, it's what let me think. It's the guy who's like a popular jock and then the girl who's like a nerd with no friends and then like they go to the same university and she skyrockets to popularity because for like intellectual disposition like Is that something that you is more glorified when you're in high red than when you are in high school? And he's kind of like a jock who, like, isn't he's not really, like cool anymore. He doesn't fit in. He's like, not as intellectual or whatever and like it goes on from there. But I'm not really selling it very well. But it was. I'm just I'm talking at you. Could I have a feeling you haven't read it? But it's so good. It's so good. But Sally, everyone's obsessed with Sally Bernie now, and it's always like it's like one of those things now, where it's like you have to have an opinion on celebrity and like my opinion on Sally Rudy is that she's a good writer. Um, and she's Irish, which also is probably important to mention if you're not familiar with it, because all her books I take place over in the UK I remember correctly, I'm probably like saying that wrong, and it's like the other I just bubbling up, Yeah, um, yeah, and that's like my entire list. We had a couple of them together. I don't have like a brief movie list, but Mary has never seen any movies.
Yeah, I never watched
Good right of B. I wish that I had never seen television lately. Like, I wish
I could just stop watching TV. You can do it. I do, and I just don't have. Yeah, I
mean, we have one. We don't have cable, so it's really just like a blow up screen. Um, much. I keep stabbing myself with this pen. You're any? I know it well for anyone who's interested in My top five movies were dazed and confused, almost famous. Harold and Mod, The Breakfast Club. And then I couldn't decide like a high Fidelity Garden State counted. But in reality, these air, not even movies. I necessarily like love anymore. But these are movies I loved in high school, and they are like all buildings were Mom. But I don't know there. I've seen them all so many times they've lost their luster, although, like Breakfast Club kind of never gets old. But you've never seen the breakfast lunch, and that's astonishing. We're gonna have We should have a movie, and I watch. We should, like only watch like John Hughes movies or something.
I've never seen a single one of those movies.
I don't know if they would hit the same now, but I think the breakfast club would, and that's the best one of them all. I think you've never seen like an old John Cusack movie, either, like high fidelity or, like, say anything. No so interesting. It's funny. It's funny because these are all, like, very much in line with, like, your brand of, like, e mo history. And like these books and stuff like that, like other things we have in common like it seems to me like the next logical progression of media consumption.
Yeah, I'm trying out movies I really liked in high school, and the only one I can think that this black swan I never saw that. I fucking love it.
That's like one of those movies where I'm like I don't have the emotional capacity to watch this, and so I never put it on.
It's great. It's like a thriller.
Oh, is it? Yeah, I'm writing it down is if I'm gonna forget it, because maybe I'll put it on later. I don't know. I'm excited to finish reading my book and then I'm sad because I haven't ordered any new book, so I'm like, I have actually read the books I own Motor City. We have a couple because this idea this whole thing, where I get Meet the Pulitzer for fiction every year and they're a couple of those I haven't read yet, so maybe we'll pick one of those up. I need to find a new book, though I'm kind of trying to play catch up right now with, like, popular fiction books that I haven't been reading because I have been well for grad school like it made it so that I couldn't read for a year afterwards. And so I'm like, now, in the second year after grad school, trying to get back to actually reading again and like, it's nice to remember that I like it. That's good. You'll probably have a grad school hangover. I had to guess. You'll be like, I can't do anything intellectual.
Yeah, that's how I feel right now. My quarantine. It's like my burnout. Thank
you. Yeah. Yeah, like grad schools. When I watched all the friends like I was like, I can't think I don't have a brainthat's why I watch.There you go. Oh, that makes so much sense now. Yeah, in that context. Well, I feel like we've exhausted this subject for now. I really want to go, like, read and watch coming of age stories now, although little fires everywhere is like, extremely about teenagers, and it's also one who lose, I'm excited to start that waste. Witherspoon is like the new literary goddess. I guess she's on the cover of Vanity Fair this month, and I haven't read the article, but it's sitting in my bathroom, and it's like how Reese Witherspoon turned her life love of literature in tow, X, y and Z And I'm just like, Isn't there anyone else I I enjoy A Reese Witherspoon will be like the next person, but it's just like couldn't anyone else. I don't know, Manqué should be on the cover of Vanity Fair. Yeah, all right. That's all I've got. I just pick up a book club book for April. I haven't done that yet, so that'll be forthcoming, but I don't know yet. Maybe it'll be a coming of age story, eh? Something's being Walter. I'm just saying we should revisit the for exiting a wallflower. Let me find All right. Well, until then we'll reconvene and have a deep dive on the perks being wallflower Yeah. All right, well, I guess we're out.